You know that selling Bitcoins via PayPal is really bad right? If with aren't buy are opening up bitcoins to having the hammer dropped on you by the Feds. Once phone, your patience in this neteller has been greatly appreciated. Number responsibility for your own mistakes. Pls send me the screenshots then April 24, Don't want to leave the house? I don't disagree, but I'm also not going to hold my breath for local to change.
It was his money, why should it be returned to the scammer?! GO to companies house Seabrook LTD is dissolved, Selborne limited is still trading and you can see there address information. We will call you at an appropriate time in Thailand to discuss details in regards to these disputed transaction. Ok sr April 29, , 6: Open offers for Neteller current bitcoin market price Neteller would have to have some part in the scam because it doesn't make sense to just empty an account for being high risk.
I would neteller that is with to use Skrill or Neteller for bitcoin trading only with trusted persons that you buy and have experience with. This confirms that it phone not illegal ny Neteller's Number. Neteller got screwed just as OP did A mobile phone number is needed for this process but local id verification is required. While such links can be established — if you publish your Bitcoin address on your public blog and request donations then of course everyone will know its your address — Bitcoin is bitcoins default PSEUDOnymous rather than anonymous.
No no, the OP admitted to being skeptical and continuing with the transaction. At that point, it is OP's decision and his responsibility. If he decided to stop after the first transaction, he probably wouldn't be here asking for advice on how to get his money back from a failed bitcoin transaction, which he knew was irreversible in the first place. The point of bitcoin is for users to be responsible for their own money.
Plenty of people feel uneasy about trades that go through just fine. Plenty of people also have multiple businesses. You cannot expect average person to be able to securely authenticate everyone they transact with. It was Neteller's job to protect their user accounts. Because they failed at this, an innocent person was scammed. Neteller did what they do, and the scammer screwed both OP and Neteller.
I really can't put it any plainer. Unless Neteller was in on it, they are a victim as well. As far as anyone knows, some Nigerian dude duped everyone and made off with everything, we just haven't been updated.
Neteller advertises instant deposits, so they must credit accounts with the value of each deposit before the money from the bank is actually received, so it is entirely possible that the scammer called their bank and cancelled the charged he had just made. That's how scammers work. Dont get all riled up bro: But I appreciate the support in this thread. If you were where I am, Id buy you a beer: You are a piece of shit. I hope for your sake you are trolling and dont actually have this disgusting world view.
Neteller would have to have some part in the scam because it doesn't make sense to just empty an account for being high risk. The money went somewhere, just not to OP. I'm willing to bet that after the initial legitimate transaction most likely used to establish trust, which it obviously did OP's bitcoin buyer cancelled any USD transfers upon receiving the bitcoin, and Neteller's site simply wasn't quick enough to fix it after OP's account got credited. Use your heads and this type of thing will rarely happen.
The fact that OP continued to send BTC to this user after expressing he had misgivings after the first transaction makes it completely OP's fault. Everything looks more obvious in retrospect. I'm sure you can go back over every mistake you made in your life and realize signs that could have prevented it.
Do you say the same thing to rape victims? That they were too drunk or too skanky? It's their fault for being in that dark ally where there are known rapists, right? How can you possibly question this logic? People are responsible for themselves, businesses aren't there to take over their customer's common sense or sense of responsibility.
It sucks that scammers exist, but there will always be scammers I refuse to accept the premise that Neteller is responsible for OP's lack of responsibility, and I am sickened that you would liken this situation to rape as an argumentative "ace-in-the-hole". If you walk into the middle of a busy highway assuming that people are going to stop, and they don't, whose fault is it?
The point is, don't be an idiot and put yourself in a position to get hurt out of ignorance, assuming you'll be safe. Take every precaution and you'll be fine, especially with something untraceable like bitcoin. You're comparing not being able to stop in time on a freeway, to not raping someone. Guy loses 80k in fraud but can't be assed to check the company names he was dealing with. Judging by the naming style i am guessing uk LTD companies.
GO to companies house Seabrook LTD is dissolved, Selborne limited is still trading and you can see there address information. Even easier he could have checked companies house and got a phone number for the address and rang them up. Maybe when they tell him the prince of Nigeria does not live there the penny might have dropped.
He should have waited for the wire transfer to clear completely first. Just like how it takes a week for coinbase to deliver to your account. It was a security failure on their part that they allowed a 3rd party to send money from someone else's account. The blame for this kind of scam falls squarely on Netteller's shoulders, not the innocent person who was defrauded due to Netteller's security negligence.
Neteller IS the third party The 3rd party got duped, just as the seller did. You seem oddly invested in making us all look like shitheads for telling OP the honest and harsh truth. The truth is, it sucks, but it happened. OP can not do a thing about it, and that's his own fault. Neteller acted as the money handler, and they advertise instant deposits Stop being so stubborn about this and look at it from every point of view. Neteller got screwed just as OP did Because OP sent his BTC to a scammer before making sure the payment was secure, and is butthurt about it.
Dude, OP is not a victim Irresponsible people are risk-magnets, so don't be irresponsible Your greed has led you down this path. The best thing would be for you to learn from this experience. Find out where the fraudster is based. If in uk then get police involved and the press involved if rhe fraudster gets enough heat he might return the coins.
UK police don't seem to be interested in investigating fraud any more. There's a private company called 'Actionfraud' that are supposed to do it. You can imagine how that works out. I'm guessing that the poker sites makes so much money that the small fraction of reverses doesn't affect their bottom-line.
He should not have done additional trades, but there is probably something he can do? Maybe try to point him down the right path, whether its to get justice or have some chance of redeeming the money, rather than point and laugh. You now learn the hard way why people don't do that. I suspect there's not much you can do. I've not heard of neteller before, but a cursory glance of their website suggests they are very similar to pay pal.
You know that selling Bitcoins via PayPal is really bad right? Why didn't you think this advice applied to every other similar platform? I guess the community needs to be more explicit that it's not just PayPal. Every PayPal like mechanism is at risk! So wait, somehow the guy reversed the transactions into your account? After you sent him bitcoins.
I can see trusting the first neteller transaction, but the second one with a different merchant account? Should have stopped there, returned the money from the second transaction and not sent the bitcoin. Instead goes ahead and does another transaction with a 3rd merchant account. This is rather like my brother. He bought a used car from a dealer for 4K over the asking price, then a few weeks later gets a call from their 'finance' department asking him to come back in a sign some more papers.
They told him he'd save some money, but ended up charging him even more by extending his length of payments another year.
As others are thinking, it might be the case that the legal system might go after you instead of the perp. Unfortunately there is probably not a lot you can do. Neteller is probably not at fault: Someone has to be the one who loses the money, and according to the rules that someone is you. File a police report. Try to trace the BTC. If you can trace them to an exchange, give that info to the police. They can get the exchange to give them the details of the customer account in question.
You may get lucky and have a detective actively hunt this guy, or you might just get to file a report with no action even when you tell them the perp's address. If you can trace other related activity through the blockchain then thats good.
So the cops will probably take your statement, bust you for the laws you just admitted breaking, and stick your complaint in the pending file. This just clearly shows why we need bitcoin. Sorry for your loss OP. Why didn't you consider selling on a established exchange? Neteller has your ID anyhow. So why not use bitstamp or another exchange. Of course it isn't. It was his money, why should it be returned to the scammer?! Because the money he recieved didnt belong to the person that gave it to him?
Same reason you can get into hot water by having possession of stolen items even if you didnt know it was stolen when you bought it. However, before being caught, B walks into a grocery store and spends the stolen money on a soda, which he drinks on the spot. Is it legitimate to go to the grocery store, demand the money back and return it to A?
I don't think so. This is OTC exchange, not a valid exchange of goods and services rendered and taxed. Wire transfers or credit transfers are not the same thing, I think.
How is going to the shop and buying a soda not a valid exchange of goods and services rendered and taxed? But he didn't do anything wrong and now he's being punished because a system enabled it. This guy shouldn't lose his money because a bank can't keep their system safe but are only willing to assume less than all of the responsibility.
Unless it's stolen money that's still in the bank, right? Looks like in this case the banks stole it back and probably all colluded to enable that. It's Netteller's job to authenticate their users.
The person receiving the money does not have the means to do this. They reversed the transaction because they were told that it was unauthorized This whole story seems fishy anyway, and from the comments you're posting it looks like you simply want sympathy donations. I am very sorry to hear your story, that really sucks. I hate that so many people are being rude and rushing to judgment about you on this post. This kind of thing could happen to any of us, sure you could have been more careful but..
Yea I expected people to hate a little. Just desperate to try and fix this situation. Im a risk taker at heart or reckless or stupid. So Ill end up in these situations from time to time. Its what makes life flavourful.
If nothing else, it takes courage to tell people you fucked up. Thanks for teaching the community, so we can learn from your mistake. I hope you get some satisfaction on this. Sorry that happened to you. I have never heard of neteller before but hopefully your story will give them some backlash.
I understand reverse transactions are a protective measure but the key is to not let fraud happen the first place. These MSB's have been to arrogant with their policies and people like you are getting the shaft.
As to the people being complete assholes to you, their anger is very immature. It denotes a feeling of having been defrauded themselves at some point. Their anger is misdirected. They are angry at themselves not you, talking to themselves.
Don't take it personally. Are you licensed as a money transmitter? If you aren't you are opening up yourself to having the hammer dropped on you by the Feds. You're out cash, coins and opening up yourself to legal actions. You need to be registered regardless. If that's true, then how do they differentiate a bitcoin from any other asset that may have circulating value?
This has been the general opinion for a while, and the letter that Casascius Coins received confirms it. I suspect they classify it that way because the money transmitter definition describes sending money electronically, which is obviously a fundamental part of Bitcoin.
Anything can be used as money, and if the definition is that broad then FinCen has ridiculous power to regulate the sale of all goods. I don't disagree, but I'm also not going to hold my breath for it to change. Just remember, we were happy when FinCEN told the Senate panel that the existing regulations were sufficient.
Just think what could have happened if they wanted more. It all depends on how you interpret existing regulations. We won't really know the answer to this stuff until get it gets tested in court. I just have a hard time believing that selling bitcoins can be classified as money transmission while selling gold cannot.
Read the way the rules are written. The transmission of value electronically is why selling Bitcoins is money transmission and selling gold is not. I believe so, and I would assume that as a company that received a large amount of startup capital, they are smart enough to be registered.
I don't believe Bitcoin has "administrators", but what is the definition of "exchanger"? Business or not, he was engaged in the business of selling Bitcoins and needs to be licensed. He was also engaging in amounts that would be suspect for money laundering, which is the exact reason they require registration. You don't get to simply tell the government you aren't a business so the rules don't apply, you comply, and if they have to tell you that you are out of compliance, it typically involves prosecution.
Oh, equivocating "Business" with "in the business of". I see what you did there. Regardless of how you or I view it, that is how the government views it. I agree, it is nonsense, but it doesnt matter how we define our actions, if it meets the government definition of being a "business", then it is a business. Most mistakes aren't that big and you learn from them. This one was massive and you are definitely going to learn from it. You can try legal means to attempt recovery of the money, but I have doubts that you'll get anything.
There are pretty safe exchanges which are frequented by a huge amount of traders. What's your excuse for not using a known exchange? Probably greed - you wanted to get a better price? I'm just guessing here.
Getting your account locked is another flag. Those payment providers like paypal and neteller have a history of locking accounts for various reasons. Sometimes they get unlocked, sometimes they don't. Either way without the ability to withdraw you should've stopped trading.
It's about minimizing your risk to a single trade. You paid a huge amount of money for this lesson and, don't get me wrong, I don't think that's fair at all, but that's what happened. I'm sorry but to me this whole thing looks pretty bad.
I wouldn't know what to do either, except trace the bitcoin.. You should go to the police. Neteller can't do much. It seems you have enough evidence to back you up, you know how the guy looks physically since you've done local trades, you probably have some contacts on him phone numbers he used etc and so on. Do you know where he lives?
At least the town or neighborhood? That would be great info to have. But even if you don't, you should go to the police. Sorry if my post wasnt clear enough. We used localbitcoins but we traded over the internet. After the first two trades, we just traded on skype.
He sent me Neteller funds and I sent him bitcoins. How can someone call Netseller, Paypal, their bank, etc. The companies should say let's hear both sides first. I hope everything works out for you. I agree with you. You would think a legit company like Neteller wants to do the right thing and protect its customers, but in the end, money is the objective and money makes the world go round. You knew the transaction could be reversed.
You can't do anything. I don't think anyone should feel sorry for you Don't do what I did. However upon reviewing my accounts after they were opened I added up everything and the total was 85k. Sorry dude, there's not a lot of empathy around here for ignoring red flags with that much money at stake: Multiple red flags here. You should have been alerted to something fishy going on as soon as he kept escalating the amount of bitcoins he needed each time.
He was testing the water and you kept biting so he kept increasing the gap of your anus. Second how in the WORLD do you keep going through with it when he starts sending from multiple different accounts?!?!?! If he had a single company that had a lot of money it would all be coming from the same account. If you ask him and he has an answer for everything and it sounds somewhat suspect that's situation 3. Listen you got greedy and you were rubbing your hands together when you saw all this money rolling in.
Did you call him on the phone? Thanks for your post. I should def have taken some more steps to protect myself. Ill note some of this down e.
You get no sympathy from me. You broke the law, and it turned out badly. You may have to try a few before you find an anonymous option. I guess they changed their policy. I just tried to buy like 80 bucks worth and they still wanted me to go through the entire registration process. Thanks for the feedback BitcoinBen, indeed peer-to-peer Bitcoin purchases is one of the best way to preserve anonimity.
That is too much of a premium for an all-cash deal. In fact, there must be a better way to get a reasonable price and retain anonymity. Do you know that better way? Hi Henry, Localbitcoins is indeed not the cheapest way to buy Bitcoins as you have to trade with individuals there with cash. You can check some of the other methods listed in the article, but please note buying Bitcoin anonymously will always cost you more than buying through regular exchanges with identity verification.
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And please don't worry, your report will be anonymous. Hi Chairman, Check out our guide to this exact scenario: Hey Anne, Well, you can go look at the blockchain right now using any blockexplorer: While such links can be established — if you publish your Bitcoin address on your public blog and request donations then of course everyone will know its your address — Bitcoin is by default PSEUDOnymous rather than anonymous.
Trying to maintain Real anonimity is a hassle, but doable if you keep at it. In my view for my situation I live in a big US city there is a good way. In my town there is a meeting once a month and there are both informational presentations and bitcoin for cash sellers.
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